October 15, 2000

My biologist friend was up at Green Peter this last Friday to do their yearly netting. They netted 40 kokes. He said that the fish were on the small side. The largest was 13 inches, the smallest about 8 to 9 inches, with an average of about 11 inches.

They did plant last year with about 100,000 fry. They will plant again this spring with another 100,000 fry. Wayne felt that the lake was still feeling the effects of the floods we had a few years back. They will probably do one more planting after the planting next spring and see how the fishery responds. A side note, Wayne said that they did net some very nice trout. He is hopeful that the lake will get back to it's old self with the help of these plantings. The lake had not been planted for many years and had sustained a very good fishery until the flood problems.

Over all I thought the year was a good one. In September, the fishing was excellent. The only negative was the size of the fish. We caught a lot!!!! of small fish this year in the 8 to 9 inch range. If there are as many of these small fish as I think there are, next year should be a very good year for some very nice sized kokes.

Well that's it for this year. Hope to see and hear from you koke fishermen next year.

This report submitted by Guy

September 15, 2000

Went to the lake Friday the 15th after work to check out the kokanee fishing. I had not been to the lake for about 3 plus weeks. Our family went and camped in eastern Oregon for 9 days and the boys did some archery hunting. I was going to go last weekend, but a young lady ran into the back of our blazer and I had to wait another week. The wait was worth it. I got to the lake at about 530, Friday. We fished until dark and were able to get 14 fish in the boat. We had many, many, bites and many fish on, but it was tough to get them into the boat. We spent a very quiet peaceful night on the lake. We were up at 600, had a little breakfast and were fishing by about 630. I had to leave at 1030 to get to a wedding, but we managed to boat another 22 kokes. The bite was good, but it was still tough to keep the fish on and get them in the boat. The fish are still in very good shape. the males are starting to turn and have lost most of the their scales. The females still have scales and are still very firm. We caught mostly males. The biggest fish were about 13 inches in length. We caught the fish at 56 feet. I am hoping to get to the lake next weekend for one last go. There were very few people at the lake, mostly other fishermen. It made for a great trip.

This report submitted by Guy

September 5, 2000

Started trolling around 7:30 am. The three other boats in the area were catching fish and I could hear them commenting on how plump the kokanee were. I was marking few fish but, as the 8-30 report states, those marked would hit almost immediately. I was fishing were I had a month earlier, west to east from the point across the lake from Thistle creek to the cove just west of the mouth of Rumbaugh creek. Hooked up with quite a few fishing perpendicular to that line also, trolling south to north and turning around after crossing half way. Notice I said hooked up rather than catching, as I had around three times as many fish hooked than those that reached the net. I was trolling a glow wedding ring, w/chartruse tape on spinner, and a #6 red Gamakatsu egg hook. When using this setup most fish that didn't short strike me stayed on till the net. But the bite slowed so I experimented w/ Shasta Tackle's Sling blade dodger (nice dodger by the way) and their Koka-nut lure, a double hook rig w/mylar attached to a bit of Glow in the dark rubber worm. I started hooking up again but of the four fish hooked on the Koka-nut, only three stayed on long enough to get a look at. Trolled all day with downrigger (works but is a pain in the butt, takes up to much fishing time to operate) at 60 to 70 feet. Came home with 4 of approx. 12 fish hooked, fished 5 hours, guess I'm still a rookie, novel complete.
This report submitted by Doug S

August 30, 2000

I got in a few hours of trolling at green weenie today and the bite was on (just as you had said). I boated eight kokes 10 to 13 inches much to the dismay of the three boats following me around the lake. This wasn't bad considering I didn't get on the lake until about 1:30 or so. They were hanging around the 45 to 55 foot level. I didn't mark alot of fish on the finder but the ones I did mark almost always hit. Your website is well done and very informative. Thanks for the tip about Green Peter. As usual your info was right on.
This report submitted by Brian

August 23, 2000

If the fishing three years ago, when we had that terrific year, was rated at 100.  Then the fishing right now should be rated 90.  I started fishing around 8:30am.  First I motored straight across to the other side and trolled toward the point across from the island.  It was obvious by looking at the finder the fish were a little deeper, at 60 feet.  I boated about half a limit of nice fat 12"ers till the breeze came up around 11:00.  So I took a break and went swimming in the 72 degree water.  Refreshed, I decided to get away from the usual spot and try half way between the island point and the next big point toward Tally Creek or East, fishing the South side.  The bite was at times fast and furious.  Three fish on three drops, almost before I could put the pole in the holder!  The rest of the limit was easy.  Of the total limit only four fish were less that 11 1/2" inchers.  Nice fat bright Kokes.  I strongly recommend heading out for that one last Kokanee trip if you're thinking of calling it quits.  You may miss out on some really fine fishing.
This report submitted by Robert

August 19, 2000

My daughter came home on Friday to go on a fishing trip with old dad. We got to the lake at about 4:30 on Friday. It was warm but off and on misting. We started fishing down by the dam with not much luck. I was getting worried about getting her into some fish and prove that I can catch kokanee. We finally found some fish about half way down from the dam on the south side. We managed to get 8 in the boat and take the pressure off dad. We beached the boat, had a late dinner and slept in the boat. It rained hard a couple of times during the night. I don't think I would of noticed it, except for the leak that developed around the zipper directly above my head.

We got up a little late, but still were on the lake at about 6:00 after a cup of hot chocolate and old fashion donut for breakfast. We spent the next 6 hours hooking and boating and hooking and losing fish. The fish were the two different classed that Robert mentioned. We managed to boat 36 kokes for the day. Standard gear for the day, bear can spinners, corn and wedding ring. We trolled at 40 feet all day.

For all of you that have daughters, take them fishing. They need time with you just like your sons and if you do a good job teaching them, they just might out fish you.
This report submitted by Guy

August 17, 2000

We spent the morning at GP without any success with kokanee. We didn't have high expectations, as this was the first trip for us, and neither of us have much experience with kokanee. We were on the water at 8AM, and discovered that with our 15hp Yamaha, we couldn't go any slower than 2.2 mph. After trying going in and out of gear with the motor and trying to go in a continuous circle, we gave up trying to troll. We tried jigging at several spots, all on the lower half of the reservoir including the boom across the dam, but without any hookups. We did have a few suspicious bumps, but they were likely not kokanee, and we did catch bass. We marked very few fish in the water column.

We tried weighted jigs, and spent most of the time using buzzbombs tipped with corn.

If anyone has suggestions for improving our chances of success, we'd appreciate hearing.

This report submitted by Dennis

August 16, 2000
Thought it might be a good time to go fishing with my wife.  I was right.   I put the boat in at 3:00PM and motored across to the other side of the lake to get things ready for her arrival.  The plan was for me to meet her at the park by the dam when she got off work.  So I figured 5:00 as the time to meet her.  For the first hour I just stopped in the middle to get things ready.  I was hoping she would bring my Grand-daughter and really have a good time.  So I wanted everything set up right for her.  I lowered my usual concoction down to 48 feet and just started doing something when I had a fish on.  It stayed like this for the next hour.  I boated 6 fish without really trying.  I rigged up another pole with a white and orange spin & glo with white glo beads to try something different.  That something different caught a nice fat 12 1/2"er.  After my wife arrived, without Grandchild, we fished from the dam on down the lake catching fish along the way.  No "spot" seemed to make a difference, we just went with the breeze.  It was a wonderful evening of fishing.  There seems to be two year classes of fish right now.   12"ers making up about 20% of the catch and 10 1/2"ers making up the rest.  If those smaller fish don't spawn till next year, it could really be good.   Overall I would rate the fishing very good right now.  Here's a few images to look at.  I'll delete them after a week or so.  image1   image2  image3
This report submitted by Robert

August 12, 2000

I went to the lake today with my wife and two younger sons. I got them all out of bed a 3:00 am and got them into the truck with hot chocolate in hand. We got to the lake a little later than usual, because I had to do a turn around and go back to the house because I had dropped my check book when I hooked up the trailer.

The morning was beautiful as usual and I fished for about two hours by myself because everyone else fell asleep in the boat. Fishing was good all day long and I saw other fishermen catching fish as well. I limited out and my two sons caught 14 between them. They were more interested in sleeping and just goofing around than serious fishing. It was a great family day.

I also watched a osprey catch one of my lost kokanee. I hooked a koke and he came off and started jumping out of the water about 30 feet from the boat. I'm not sure just where the osprey came from, but you heard the sound of the wind through his feathers as he dropped in on the fish. He missed the first pass and came back on the second pass. That pass was successful. He was rewarded with a fat 10 inch koke.

For a Saturday, the lake was quiet. For a while there were actually more boats fishing than pleasure boats.The kids ended the day with a swim in one of the coves and then as they began the day, they ended it with a cup of hot chocolate as they warmed up.

This report submitted by Guy

August 7, 2000

Haven't written you since last year. I had given up on fishing G.P. - However Monday the 7th my son and I headed over for 4 hours of fishing. We ended up with ten who wanted to come home with us, about twice that many who just wanted to play with our emotions and one who got off the hook just in time to go home with an osprey and his mate. It was great to watch, we could see this fishing just thrashing away on the surface and then it pulled free and the next thing we knew this osprey crashed down on it and flew off with the prize. What fun! Single hooks just didn't hold fish that well, but the trebles worked out pretty good. All of our fish came between 47 and 66 feet. Big spinners worked better then my preferred #4 flasher. Our best color combo for the day was red and white beads with silver spinner. Most of the fish were females between 12 and 13 inches. We caught 3 smaller males about 10 inches in length.
This report submitted by Mike

August 5, 2000

I have noticed people wanting to fish by the dam but not making the long run from thistle. I launch a 22', 3400lb sled at the primitive ramp right at the parking area at the far side of the dam. Unless you have a REALLY light boat, you need at least limited slip but preferably 4WD. Rarely a crowd here and you are 100 yards from tying off to the logs. I have only taken the rods out twice this year with no luck, most of our time has been spent water skiing. It's hard for me to spend much time chasing such small schools after that Kokanee feast we had two years ago. It does seem that this year is slightly improved so hopefully next year will be even a little better.
This report submitted by Joe S.

August 5, 2000

Just a quick note. I did not get to the lake this last weekend because of a wedding in Medford. One of those things you have to do to keep the peace. My boss went up to GP on Saturday. He and his wife got there about 10 am. They caught 20 kokes for the day. They found two large schools, one above the whitcomb ramp and one towards the dam. They reported many bites and hook ups but had alot get off near the boat. They ranged from 10 to 12 inches and very fat and broad. They took there son and had to trade of and on with some fishing and tube rides. All in all they had a great day.

This report submitted by Guy

August 5, 2000

After reading the reports from Green Peter for over a year now, I decided it was time to try a trip there. So my friend and I drove down from Beaverton on the 5th and gave it a try. We were very impressed with the lake, what a great setting. The lake wasn't crowded, and the power boaters and and personal water craft people were respectful. Since my primary propulsion is an electric troller, we couldn't wonder as far from the Thistle Creek boat ramp as we would have liked, especially with the wind that came up late morning to early afternoon. We wanted to try by the dam as the previous reports had stated, but did not want to waste time motoring instead of fishing. So we wondered up the shore towards the #3 spot marked on the map posted on this web site of Green Peter. It took us a couple of hours to figure out the right amount of backward turns on our Shimano spinning reels (around 55) to match the depth of the fish showing up on the old Humminbird (45' to 55' or the bottom). Down riggers would certainly have been handy. On my ultra light I used a 1 oz. lead banana weight in front of a Bolo flasher (silver blades with silver prism tape) and an Apex Kokanee Killer (orange with glitter) and corn on both original hooks. My friend used a 1 oz. banana weight, Ford Fender (same reflective tape) and a Wedding Ring (orange beads) tipped with corn. We were drifting (wind too strong to troll against) from fishing area #3 back to the corner of the inlet for the Thistle Creek boat ramp for a couple of hours, than trolled both directions there once the wind abated. In 3 hours we managed to boat 10 (threw 2 back) ranging from 8" to 14", and easily lost as many if not more (you know Kokanee). Just wished we had found the right depth earlier. We definitely plan on coming back, if for nothing else but the scenery. Hope this info helps someone.
This report submitted by Mark

August 4, 2000

Just a short note to let the "real" fisherman feel good about catching so many kokanee. My fishing buddy and I read your posted stories with real envy and wonder how many bummer trips there are for each success story noted?

Raced (as fast as a pokey 8 horse motor on a drift boat can go!) down to the dam Friday August 4th from the 2nd boat launch at Green Peter about 6:00 AM hoping for a change in our luck. The weather and water were excellent but the fish catching was our usual abysmal. We fished until getting blown off the lake between 11:00 and 12 Noon. Caught one 11 inch kokanee. Used downriggers fishing 45-65 feet (more often 60-65 feet), wedding rings or similar lures tipped with just corn or corn and small piece of worm or red egg. We cannot seem to find large schools anywhere - only an occasional 1, 2 or 3 on our finder in the 40-60 foot range. We did talk to a few other fisherman who managed to catch a few fish but did not hear any reports of large numbers.

Have noticed our kokanee fishing has dropped off ever since we started trolling with an electric motor and also have noted that we don't seem to see as many fish on our finder when using that motor either - coincidence? Any words of wisdom from anyone out there?

Mike Ayres
Quality Manager/Systems Analyst
AgriFrozen Foods (503)982-5458, fax (503)982-5467
mayres@agrilinkfoods.com

July 31, 2000

I had Monday off so we went back up to Green Peter to fish another day. It was great to be on the lake without all of the activity of skiing, tubing and jet bikes etc. the morning was quiet and calm. We had a good day and were rewarded with 37 kokes. It took us from daylight to about 400pm, but can't think of a better way to spend the days with friends. The kokes ranged from about 9 inches to 12. We were fishing at a depth of 40 feet. We used what I always use just about anywhere I kokanee fish, beer can spinners and wedding rings baited with corn. That's for those of you that e-mailed me this week end. I'll answer you all back ASAP.

This report submitted by Guy

July 28, 2000

I was a not sure if I should go to Green Peter with all of the less than encouraging reports. I was tempted to go to Billy Chinook since my friend and his family were there last weekend and came home with 91 plump/fat kokes up to 16 inches in length. Green Peter won out mainly because I was not comfortable running my truck with my rebuilt transmission. I have not been to Green Peter in about three weeks because we smoked the old tranny trying to get to Bully Creek over by Vale and I thought it best to take a shorter test drive first.

Green Peter did not let me down. I got to the lake Thursday night and was able to fish for about one and a half hour. It only took about 3 mins. to get my first strike and hook up, but it took quite a while to get one in the boat. I managed to get 5 in the boat, but I had about 15 on. I met my oldest son at the boat ramp at 10:00 PM and we slowly made our way to a secluded bank and slept in the boat. It was a beautiful night and the stars were very bright. We woke up with the early light and started fishing down by the dam. The action was steady most of the day. We were able to get 42 kokes into the boat, but again, we had many many fish on but could not get them in the boat. We probably lost 3 fish for every one we got in the boat. That may sound high, but we hooked a lot of fish. They would do their twirling dance and free themselves. The fish are filling out and do not show much sign of turning yet. The smoker will be cooking to night.

This report submitted by Guy

July 15, 2000

We started at the Whitcomb Ramp at 6:15AM. Trolled with Needlefish at 40-50 ft near the island and the south shore for an hour or so, then trolled the north shore all the way to the dam-no fish.. Saw 5 or 6 boats a jiggin' and not catching anything. Stayed in the 1/4 mile area near the dam 'till about noon and caught only 3 kokanee. About 12" and full bellies. (stomachs were full of green slimy stuff-anyone know what it is?). Then we trolled the south shore about 3/4 of the way to the other end of the lake-no more fish. Never did see the big schools on the fish finder that we have seen in the past- in fact only saw an occasional single fish here and there for most of the day. Flew back to the Thistle Creek arm and trolled at 15-20 feet the rest of the afternoon for trout - only caught one. Then at 7:00PM we headed back towards the dam since it was a little cooler now and we were now re-enthused to try and catch those kokes again. A few fish were jumping here and there and we finally started seeing small bunches of fish at 30-50 feet-mostly on the north 1/2 of the lake. We caught one almost immediately and then one every 20 min. or so. We trolled a "trout" pattern "Excel" lure(a 2" trout spoon found only at Wal-Mart) until dark- it kept working so we didn't change. We ended up with 6 for the evening including a nice 17" just as we quit at dark. It was a long slow day of fishing in general and we bailed the next day to Detroit Lake where we caught about 25 trout and a 21" Chinook on a black wooly worm fly at 40ft. Yipeeeeeeeee! Hope ya'all have better luck than we did at Green Peter.
This report submitted by J. Bradley

July 16, 2000

I just went to Green Peter this weekend, and the fish were not biting at all. We saw a couple people catching some bass, and one kid with a good size trout. Other then that as far as know the fish are just not biting up there right now.
This report submitted by FATboyz4Life@aol.com

July 11, 2000

July 5, 2000

This report submitted by Brad

June 24, 2000

June 19, 2000

Fished Green Peter on Saturday from about 7am to 4pm. Caught 4 kokanee and lost a few using a downrigger at 35-40 feet and wedding ring w/corn. Saw a couple other boats with about 5 fish each. Several were trolling around the island but I didn't do any good there. I motored up towards the dam and caught the fish wind drifting back to the island. The fish were 12" and fat. The boat takeout at Thistle creek was a zoo in the late afternoon. It took me 1 1/2 hours to pull out the boat.
This report submitted by Tim

June 17, 2000

I went by myself up to Green Peter early Saturday morning, got to Thistle creek at 5:15 AM and was fishing by quarter to six. I fished again by the island and caught one right off the bat. An ounce of lead and 60 pulls. I tried without the downrigger for another half an hour, and then after switching and lowering it to forty feet, caught another within fifteen minutes. It was slow going all morning after that. Caught some others at fifty-five feet fishing north to south between island and the mouth of Rumbaugh creek (area #5). I left the lake by 10:30 with six fish, the wind and water-skiers ran me off. Would have been seven fish but the one doing the acrobatics right alongside the boat got away. I'm sure it was a hilarious sight watching me try to catch that fish in mid air with the net, It spent more time airborne than in the water. All six fish (and I'm guessing the one that got away too believe me I had a long time to look at it), were 12 to 13 inches measured with a tape and plump.

This report submitted by Doug S

June 15, 2000

I went up to Green Peter after work on Thursday the 15th. We got to the lake at about 4:45 PM and were fishing by 5:00 PM. We fished until 8:00pm and were able to get 14 fish. We landed 7 kokes and 7 trout. We had alot of bites and fish (kokes) on upto the boat and then they would start there twirling trick and they would be off. The bites were very soft. You had to really watch and feel for them. All in all a great evening. I got home at about 10:30 and then got ready to go back on Friday. Got to bed at 12:00 mid-night and then up by 2:45. Got the kids up and headed back. We were on the lake by day light and just enjoyed the sunrise. Fishing was ok. We had to work for the fish we got, but we managed to get 24. 19 kokes and 5 trout. The kokes ranged from 8 to 11 inches. Most of the kokes were caught between 25 and 30 feet. We had 4 poles out all day, but if seemed like only one pole would be hot at a time. One of the kids would catch 4 or 5 in a row and no one else would get a bite. Then it would switch to one of the other kids and they would catch kokes for a while. I caught a few, but my primary duty was running the boat and watching the kids catch fish. Great family day.

This report submitted by Guy

June 13, 2000

Got on the lake around 7:00 AM.  A beautiful morning with little or no wind.   I started fishing by the first point across form the island ( #4 ).  Almost immediately I had a bite and proceeded to to miss a half a dozen more.  I ran into trouble when I made my second pass by the point.  It was in shallower water than I figured and got the downrigger ball tangled in a root wad.  Much time later ( and several missed fish jigging ) I was back in action with a different ball.  I motored across the lake and fished the far shore.  Before the bite stopped around 10:00 AM. I boated four fish and lost one.  They were a healthy 10 1/2 inches.  I also motored up the Quartsville arm and up past Fisherman's Bridge.  I saw very few fish on the finder in those areas.  It was one of those classic disappearing acts that Kokanee sometimes do.  I left at an early 11:00 AM.

This report submitted by Robert

June 4, 2000

Well everyone at my house had things to do, so I made my first trip to Green Peter this year. I was a great peaceful day and the fishing was good. It was not exceptionally fast, but I had action most of the day. It was slow in the morning, but once the wind came up I experienced periods of good fishing as I was able to find schools of kokes and work on them. I had some hot action from about 4:30 PM to about 6:00 PM at the Island. I finished the day with 20 kokes caught. I was fishing at 28feet in the morning, 34 feet at about mid day and 39 feet in the late afternoon.

The size of the kokes ranged from 10 to 12 inches. All were in good shape and very firm. At this point in time they are in my smoker. It should be a good year at GP if today was any indication. I saw lots of fish on the fish finder and 3 very large schools of kokes. One off the island, one directly south of the island on the rocky point and one up the Santiam arm.

This report submitted by Guy

May 28, 2000

Sunday morning I trolled near the island, west and south side of island, and hooked six Kokanee. Only three made it into the net, the other three came off right at the boat. Pretty poor netting by my net man, me! I was trolling a red wedding ring with brass blade rigged with a #6 Gamakatsu red egg hook tipped with corn marinated in Pro-Cures Kokanee Special bait oil. I tried some corn marinated in the Predator bait sauce but that was after the bite had died down around noon and didn't get bit. I'll try it earlier next time as I think it should work well. I pulled the wedding ring behind a gold plated Sep's dodger with a one ounce banana weight and sixty pulls. I marked fish on the finder from the surface to approx. sixty feet. The last fish was caught using the downrigger set to forty feet. I avoided using the downrigger as long as I could, flatlining is so much easier. I also caught and released three planted rainbows, fun to catch but I wanted meat for the smoker!
This report submitted by Doug S

May 22, 2000

I still have not been to Green Peter this year, but my friend who showed me how to fish for kokanee fished GP on Monday (Labor Day). He did not get to the lake until about 12:30. They fish until about 6:30 in the evening and managed to get 15 kokes in the boat. They had other bites and fish on but as is sometimes the case could not get them into the boat. All but one of the Kokes were in the 10 to 12 inch range.
This report submitted by Guy

May 20, 2000

Spent Sat (5/20/00) with a friend at Green Peter Lake fishing for Kokanee. We ended the day with an easy limit on trout but with only two Kokanee. Both Koke are about 10" long and were caught at 50ft down (around area 3 ). Trout's are about 10" long and were easy target with apex lure (red color) at about 12 ft down.

My fish finder marked Koke from surface to as deep as 120ft around the island (area 5). We dropped our downriggers 30ft, 50ft, and 80ft deep but fish refuse to bite. There are still quite a bit of debris in the lake and the surface wafer temperature is about 60F. If past is an indication, Koke fishing at GP may not turn on in any significant way until the water temperature reaches 65F or higher. Hopefully the fishing will pickup in another week or so.

This report submitted by Chien-Hua

May 14, 2000

Two friends went up to Green Peter this last weekend. Each one made it up on a different day. One went up on Saturday and started fishing at about 9:00 am. It took them about 2 hours to figure out where and how. They caught 9 kokes and 6 trout. All of the fish were nice size. Kokes were 10 to 12 and the trout were up to 14 inches. Caught the kokes at 28 feet in the area of the island. The other friend went up on Sunday afternoon and started fishing at 4:00 PM. They fished until they got run off the lake because of the lighting. They also managed to catch 8 nice kokes, plus had other hits. They fished in the same general area at 30 feet. They both saw many fish on the fish finder. Hopefully, it points to a good year. Lots and lots of debris on the lake. Large logs to small sticks. Also the lake is not full yet.

I have not been to the lake yet but will get up to it sometime the first of June. This Thursday I am headed to Diamond and Odell. I will spend most of my time at Odell. I'll let you know how the fishing is at both.

This report submitted by Guy

May 6, 2000

I took the Arima and the family up to Green Peter today (Sunday). We got there about 1PM and Thistle Creek Ramp was not too crowded. I was mainly wanting to play with my new Lowrance X-85 to get a feel for it. We ended up trolling in the main arm that goes up to yellowbottom. We ended up with 2 nice Kokes and lost one at the boat (as usual) and also kept 6 nice trout. The Kokes were 10-11 inches, nice color. The trout were between 10-12 inches. The finder worked great. I actually got to see the fish arches! YeeHaa! Didn't find any schools are anything. Happy fishing.

This report submitted by Rick Hale

April 30, 2000

I took my daughter Megan on our annual spring trout fishing trip to GP today. We had a great time, weather was perfect with almost no wind. We trolled in the Thistle creek arm to start and caught only one fish, a Kokanee about 10 inches long. It took a brown trout colored size 60 Hot Shot rigged with a single hook and no bait. Tried for more here but with no luck. We moved out into the main lake close to the island and started to pick up some planted trout. We ended the day having caught and released between the two of us five trout, and keeping the one kokanee to take home and eat.
This report submitted by ?????